REL Quake

[wolfgang]

Interesting stuff. To most people some supports appear to have an effect to the final sound. However, the explanation as to why is definitely in dispute. It is always important to find out the reason why? I think to most of us it is. Ultimately we are interested to achieve the best possible and there is always that curiosity.

Audio-guru in magazines seems to be obsessed with their own or manufacturers theories. They concentrate on the density or the stiffness of these frames and variable ways of suspension without I felt giving enough consideration to other more obvious and perhaps the bigger influence.

It seems there are more people who think the main effects are perhaps more to do with how the sound wave dispersion pattern are altered as they propagating outward, how they are affected by surfaces nearby including the stands, the room boundaries and the objects within the room. The later would include everything from the sofa and often the bulky furniture housing the hi-fi toys with lots of shiny surfaces to reflect and edges to refract the sound waves generated. I am not sure if they come to this conclusion due to acute observation or experiments. My own wee 'experiments' when trying to look for the best location for all my 5 loudspeakers and sub around the room certainly convince me it is a lot more to do with sound waves being reflected and refracted.

 

[The Devil]

Yet you can make no logical argument as to why this should be the case and show that mana does indeed work. You have identified an effect but not provided a cause.

I have pointed out to you that it is possible your stands are making a small difference (an effect), and I've given you a rational explanation to the cause (height). I guess what you don't like is that the effect could have been acheived very simply and at little cost.

Mana acts as a vibration sink for whatever is on top of it. This fact is readily demonstrable by playing some music and feeling the stands. This effect reduces cabinet vibration & hence coloration. I have written this on this forum on at least 2 occasions, please pay attention in future.

Do you think that a speaker on top of a concrete plinth would sound identical to the same speaker on top of a similar height wooden packing crate?

"What is the point you are making?

Beta Superior. Beta didn't take off.

Mana didn't take off, therefore Mana superior"

No, I'm just countering your earlier assertion that Mana can't be any good because not everyone is using it.

"Now this is interesting because if I measured your speakers with a calibrated mike, I'd be able to show you the difference that 10 degrees below axis can make - it would be obvious on a frequency response plot. "

I think that this is untrue. Prove it to me.

"On the other hand, if I measured your speakers on all that Mana and then measured them again on a stand of the same height the difference would be negligible."

I think that this, too, is untrue. Prove it to me. You are very good at making wild (bullshit) assertions yourself, based on nothing more than your uninformed opinion.

 

[lowrider]

A physician knows everything and does nothing, a surgeon knows nothing and does everything, and a pathologist knows everything and does everything, but too late.

A gynecologist works where others play...

 

[analoguekid]

"Now this is interesting because if I measured your speakers with a calibrated mike, I'd be able to show you the difference that 10 degrees below axis can make - it would be obvious on a frequency response plot. "

I think that this is untrue. Prove it to me.

Bub am with you on most of this and feel that Dat is being a little aggresive, with his arguments (bloody yanks shout loud enough and people will believe you) however I think the abov e theory is based in fact (even if I can't prove it) it seems to be well known that tweeter response is different as you move off axis, and therfore will measure differently, whether this difference is audible or not is for another debate, FWIW I think that your system would image better if you listened nearer the tweeter axis (horizontaly) as to wether you would like it well thats down to taste.

I think the rest of Dats arguments are pedantic and based on rumour and myth, Ive heard your system and i thought it sounded great, as to wether it would be better Sans mana who knows, cept you. I can't understand why people pour scorn on others beliefs just cause they don't have same point of view, i am not religious but would not critiscise anyone who does believe, now if you rammed it down my throat that would be different. Dat seems to be one of those guys who needs to be reasured that he is not missing something by ridiculing things he doesn't or won't understand, you are therfore not in "his gang" and as a result will conmtinue to keep you ostracizesd by rude and illfounded comments

But bub I also think that your comment regarding, non mana sytems not doing dynamics was a little bold, got to disagree on that one, if you said you preffered the way mana'd systems handle dynamics then that would be ok as it is a subjective opinion.

 

[analoguekid]

A gynecologist works where others play...

Definition of a gynaecologist:

Guy who can wallpaper his front hallway,.....with his hands through the letterbox!

 

[wadia-miester]

Paul,

Datty's not a Yank mate, used to live in the shadow of Bub's second shrine (atc), although an advocate of Blind testing, he's more of idea of sound than most do, though some of his idea's (as all of our are from time to time)are some what orignal.
Quite a tactful post for you as well Paul

 

[merlin]

"Now this is interesting because if I measured your speakers with a calibrated mike, I'd be able to show you the difference that 10 degrees below axis can make - it would be obvious on a frequency response plot. "

I think that this is untrue. Prove it to me.

Bub,

Sorry but I could easily prove that by flying up to you armed with the Tact and a mic. But I also think a dismissal of the Mana effects on speakers is equally incorrect.

 

[The Devil]

Well, I don't know what the tweeter dispersal angles are for ATC 100s, but I really can't hear any significant or definite differences between when I stand up, or sit down. Perhaps the difference exists, but if so, it is negligible compared with the benefit that the Mana brings.

I stand by my earlier assertion about dynamics though. But that's only my opinion. Non-Mana'd systems tend to sound rather compressed compared with what I'm used to, and harden up at loudish volumes.

Just an opinion, guys, remember. I don't have a nerdy microphone, only me ears. Thanks for a bit of support versus the spikey dat guy, btw.

 

[analoguekid]

Paul,

Datty's not a Yank mate, used to live in the shadow of Bub's second shrine (atc), although an advocate of Blind testing, he's more of idea of sound than most do, though some of his idea's (as all of our are from time to time)are some what orignal.
Quite a tactful post for you as well Paul

You trying to say i have no tact ya big deaf shite

 

[analoguekid]

Bub,

Sorry but I could easily prove that by flying up to you armed with the Tact and a mic. But I also think a dismissal of the Mana effects on speakers is equally incorrect.

I can just see merlin on his broomstick with tact under one arm and mike under the other

 

[Tom]

Once more, I'm wondering why we can't just agree to disagree on this issue.

As Tones has pointed out on a number of occasions, if it makes your music sound better to your ears, and you can afford it, then by all means use it (whatever it might be).

If you can't hear the difference (or think it's so minimal for the cost that it's not worth it) then be glad that you're not spending money on it, sit back and enjoy the music!

Remember, in the end, your hi-fi is just a window into your music collection.

 

[wadia-miester]

You trying to say i have no tact ya big deaf shite

Flatterly Paul, will get you everywhere

 

[analoguekid]

Once more, I'm wondering why we can't just agree to disagree on this issue.

As Tones has pointed out on a number of occasions, if it makes your music sound better to your ears, and you can afford it, then by all means use it (whatever it might be).

If you can't hear the difference (or think it's so minimal for the cost that it's not worth it) then be glad that you're not spending money on it, sit back and enjoy the music!

Remember, in the end, your hi-fi is just a window into your music collection.

Tom if we all agree to disagree, where is the fun in that, you are of course correct but that doesn't mean we can't all be venemous in our attacks of the "opposition", suppose its like football, one team or the other, with no rational reason for preffering either one.

 

[merlin]

I can just see merlin on his broomstick with tact under one arm and mike under the other

You wouldn't catch me north of the border. Unless raping and pillaging is back on the agenda.

 

[Tom]

I see your point, analoguekid, and as long as you're all enjoying it, then that's fine!

 

[analoguekid]

Flatterly Paul, will get you everywhere

Aw shucks thanks pal, your such a nice guy with some well informed opinions, hang onto every thread you post in the vain attempt that even a small amount of your witty genious should rub off on me. I am not worthy.


(is that better)

 

[analoguekid]

You wouldn't catch me north of the border. Unless raping and pillaging is back on the agenda.

What maakes you think we would let you join in with all the raping and pillaging that goes on up here anyway, I don't know the arrogance of some people.

 

[wadia-miester]

Aw shucks thanks pal, your such a nice guy with some well informed opinions, hang onto every thread you post in the vain attempt that even a small amount of your witty genious should rub off on me. I am not worthy.


(is that better)

Understudies, such tolerence is required

 

[analoguekid]

Congrats on passing 3000 posts WM (must have too much time on yer hands) ever thought about getting a hobby.

 

[merlin]

What maakes you think we would let you join in with all the raping and pillaging that goes on up here anyway, I

I have a legal right. I am English!

I have managed to do a screen grab of WM's room measurement this morning If anyone could post it for me I can email it to them (not too hot on PC's!)

BTW It's +25db@32hz