REL Quake

[The Devil]

SPL doubles every three decibels, is that right?

So WM's 32 Hz output is two to the power eight times higher than it ought to be. That's 256 times louder than flat.

No wonder he thinks the ATC 100s have no bass!

 

[wadia-miester]

Would you like to put a date on that Mike

 

[Sgt Rock]

I have a legal right. I am English!

I have managed to do a screen grab of WM's room measurement this morning If anyone could post it for me I can email it to them (not too hot on PC's!)

BTW It's +25db@32hz

Did you get any pictures of his new amp ?

That's a hint Tone BTW

 

[analoguekid]

I have a legal right. I am English!

I have managed to do a screen grab of WM's room measurement this morning If anyone could post it for me I can email it to them (not too hot on PC's!)

BTW It's +25db@32hz

merlin go to photobucket.com and follow instructions to up load images to there, you can then post link or even the image itself.ps it's free.

If you have a problem email me at analoguekid at fast24 dot co dot uk replacing at and dots with ususal symbols (i have a bb connection so no worries on size and I will host it for you, but try photobucket it's pretty good.

 

[dat19]

Mana acts as a vibration sink for whatever is on top of it.

Nonsense. It wouldn't ring when you "tune it" if it absorbed energy would it?
It's also fairly easy to demonstrate that glass and steel don't absorb energy when subjected to shock waves - they pass the energy through rather than turning it into heat (which is what "absorbtion" would do..)

This fact is readily demonstrable by playing some music and feeling the stands.

Why does this have to be done by feel? There are instruments for verifying that claim.

This effect reduces cabinet vibration & hence coloration.

The cabinet flexes (vibrates) because it is not rigid - it is the internal pressure changes in the cabinet that flex the walls and that create cabinet coloration.

Do you think that a speaker on top of a concrete plinth would sound identical to the same speaker on top of a similar height wooden packing crate?

Yes.

No, I'm just countering your earlier assertion that Mana can't be any good because not everyone is using it.

No, my point was that if it were any good, more people would be using it. That there is no agreement on stand construction suggests there is no magic. If Mana's formula worked it would be widely immitated.

"Now this is interesting because if I measured your speakers with a calibrated mike, I'd be able to show you the difference that 10 degrees below axis can make - it would be obvious on a frequency response plot. "

I think that this is untrue. Prove it to me.

Pick up any book on Loudspeaker design - they all show off-axis frequency response plots..

"On the other hand, if I measured your speakers on all that Mana and then measured them again on a stand of the same height the difference would be negligible."

I think that this, too, is untrue. Prove it to me.

Your the one making outlandish statements about mana and cabinet vibration, distortion and loudness and so on all of which are measurable, but none of which you have any proof of.

You are very good at making wild (bullshit) assertions yourself, based on nothing more than your uninformed opinion.

You have yet to prove that a single thing I've said is wrong.

 

[The Devil]

You have yet to prove that a single thing I've said is wrong.

I don't need to prove it, I know that you are wrong, contrary and extremely boring.

Amuse me.

 

[analoguekid]

Not wanting to argue bub, but from what you've told me Mana only really becomes effective when you have as much as you, as with regard to dissipating energy, all the movement of the mana and the friction generated between each phase is where the energy is lost, I can't see it working anything like as well with only 1 or 2 phases-discuss

Dat it would appear as if you are being argumentative for the sake of it as neither you or bub have proven anything, bub has said some bold statements (for which he has been punished, but one of the statements you made seems a little wide of the mark also, "would loudspeakers sound different on concrete as well as packing crate of same height" somehow i dont think they would as energy transmitted into the concrete will not be as audible as that transmitted into wood, (simple physics), please prove this to me.

FWIW i am beither for or against mana, but wouldn't have it due to looks alone.

 

[analoguekid]

What happened to bubs post where he very cleverly called dat a W***er?

 

[The Devil]

Phase 1 & 2 is better than nowt. I agree the more, the merrier.

You felt the speaker stands vibrating, Paul. The energy to make them vibrate came from the speaker cabinets, there's nowhere else it could come from. Ergo, the amplitude of vibration of the cabinets must be reduced, because some of the energy is used up in 'driving' the stand below.

I know that the energy doesn't come from the air because the amp & source stands can't be felt to vibrate in the same way that the speaker stands do.

Sorry I don't have 'special instruments' to measure this.

Offending post self-edited to preserve harmony. Good, though, I thought.

 

[analoguekid]

Bub would have to agree that there was vibration in thee speaker stands, and due to the laws of physics some of that must be converted to heat(friction from spike to level below).

Iliked the eloquent way you put it, so for everyone else instead of calling someone a wa**er use "gentleman of certain personal habit" (near enough), this does not refer to Dat who clearly spends to much time putting quotes in his posts to have time for a w**k

 

[dat19]

I don't need to prove it, I know that you are wrong, contrary and extremely boring.

There is what you know and what you can prove.

You have amply demonstrated that what you know has no basis in fact, because you've yet to constuct an argument to support your claims.

When your claims are questioned you resort to bullying and then (if that doesn't work) you try petty insults.

Amuse me.

I'm busy amusing the "innocent bystanders", the folks who stand on the sidelines of arguments like this, wondering who is right and who is wrong.

It amuses me to think that one or two of them might give some consideration to the things I've said and also for them to ponder whether anything you've said has any real merit.

 

[The Devil]

What bullying?

I've stated my case. I have told you how Mana stands work.

I have three years experience with Mana stands, you have zero.

You have the arrogance to tell me & everyone else that Mana stands don't work. Prove that yourself.

It's a circular argument. I suppose you think that you look all clever, worldweary & cynical, but in fact you are making a fool of yourself. I wouldn't dream of arguing aggressively about anything in hi-fi of which I knew nothing. But do carry on if you really must.

 

[lowrider]

Sorry guys, but we where the better team... PORTUGAL... :mo:

 

[greg]

Sorry guys, but we where the better team... PORTUGAL... :mo:

Indeed Portugal played a very good game and England were a shadow of their potential, Rooney may have made a significant difference, but we looked tired, lacking in concentration and lacking imagination. However Portugal enjoyed the 12th (swiss) man throughout and the late goal from Sol Campbell looked fine to me so at the end of 90 minutes I feel England won. Nevertheless Portugal deserved to win.

 

[dat19]

I've stated my case. I have told you how Mana stands work.

You case is built on a false predicate that "Mana acts as a vibration sink". I've countered by pointing out that neither steel or glass absorbs vibration.

I have three years experience with Mana stands, you have zero.

Your "experience" has the same credibility as: alien abduction; crystals curing cancer; fortune telling etc

You have the arrogance to tell me & everyone else that Mana stands don't work. Prove that yourself.

Ah, but I'm not the one making wild claims for the efficacy of Mana stands. If I were making such claims, then the burden of proof would be on me. You're making the claim, you provide the proof.

It's a circular argument. I suppose you think that you look all clever, worldweary & cynical, but in fact you are making a fool of yourself.

Anyone that get's off their ass and taps a pane of glass or a piece of steel is going to know what I said above is correct and conclude that maybe I'm not such a fool after all. They are also going to know that the foundation of your claims about Mana are false.

I wouldn't dream of arguing aggressively about anything in hi-fi of which I knew nothing.

Earlier in this thread you showed you know nothing about off-axis response, but seemed happy to argue about it.

 

[lowrider]

I am not going to argue, but if you saw the repetition, one English player leaned on Ricardo in the small area, thats a fault...

Besides that, Cole deserved a few yellow cards against Ronaldo, but I am not complaining, I still think we where the hardest working team and deserved the win... Great game though, we all suffered till the end...

 

[PeteH]

I know that the energy doesn't come from the air because the amp & source stands can't be felt to vibrate in the same way that the speaker stands do.

The speaker stands are presumably going to be a lot closer to the source of the vibrations than the other ones though.

 

[julian2002]

i don't know much about football but surely if there is a foul then play is stopped and a free or goal kick is given? still as i said over in the chat forum portugal definately deserved to win but england *should* have won. i hope portugal go all the way to the final.

maybe we shoiuldn't be polluting this thread with footie talk. bub and dat have a nice little barney going on here let's let it be.
cheers


julian

 

[analoguekid]

Dat the level of mana bub has has numerous shelves placed ontop of each other, they convert the vibration to heat/friction through each level of spikes, that much i understand, having said that they look ugly (subjective) and they move tweeter off axis (too high in bubs case IMHO, but then it aint my system and he likes it that way.

FWIW if anything that both your arguments should promptp others to go out and listen for theirselves, then don't post if they like em as you will only slate em, if they don't like em then bub will.

 

[Saab]

Cole deserved a few yellow cards against Ronaldo, but I am not complaining,

nonsense,he played him off the park.Cole was the best player on the pitch.But Portugal deserved their win,they played well