Religion Debate

blackdog said:
I'd like to know why some believe an intelligent entity would be required to construct the universe when there's no such requirement anywhere else in nature.
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Because the alternative is the faith that it all started when an event that has an infinitely small probability associated to it happens?

I can't decide which is more likely and I can guarantee no-one on this forum can either. :)
 
Seeker_UK said:
And if facts, logic and reason can't explain it?
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Natural selection explains, for example, how the giraffe got its long neck, Seeker. What else would you like explained? The origin of the universe? We don't yet fully know, and may never know, but the beginning seems to have been something we call the big bang.

The problem with "god", as pointed out earlier, is that if you insist that every complex thing must have a creator, then that leaves the question: who or what created god? Saying "god has always existed" means that not every complex thing requires a creator, which was the initial premise.

None of this disproves god, just as no-one can prove that there isn't a 1955 Cadillac in orbit around Saturn, for instance. The Cadillac & god seem equally unlikely, but neither can ever be ruled out.
 
blackdog said:
Sorry Seeker, I can buy into just about anything but the idea some guy in white robes held his hand out and planets suddenly poofed out of nowhere.
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And, of course, this is not what most religious people believe either.

Those who believe the Bible believe that God is a source of infinite power and energy, who has always existed, but at one point decided to create other beings to enjoy life with him. Then he used his enormous energy to produce matter, the Universe.
And that the Bible uses anthropomorphisms to help us to visualise him and to understand something of him, i.e. the power of god is also referred to as the 'finger' of god. The very use of the term Father to refer to god draws on human experience of the family relationship.
 
blackdog said:
Sorry Seeker, I can buy into just about anything but the idea some guy in white robes held his hand out and planets suddenly poofed out of nowhere.
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And this is less likely than planets poofing out of nowhere without any outside intervention?

;)

You athiests are crazy :D
 
Again, it makes no sense for personifying the force(s) that created the universe when clearly it isn't required. Just look at the mechanisms around us. Many are understood and all operate just fine without any supernatural power or magic wands need.

I understand humans have a need to belong and feel safe but superstition (religion) is a bit ridiculous in this day and age.

P.S. Scientists (and fellow atheists I know) don't believe planets "poof" period, rather form over a long period of time from gases and other substances.
 
Czechchris said:
Those who believe the Bible believe that ... [etc]
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Why believe the bible though? What evidence is there that it is true? The gospels were all written a very long time after Jesus' death and contain many inconsistencies. And what about the dichotomy between the old testament god, vengeful and generally pretty nasty, desperately paranoid about whether people believed in it, and the new testament caring sharing god, who doesn't smite anyone? Isn't it likely that all the OT smiting stuff was just descriptions of natural disasters and epidemics of disease by people who didn't understand what was really going on?

Even some contemporary religious loons describe AIDS, for example, as god's vengeance on whoever contacts it.
 
The Devil said:
Natural selection explains, for example, how the giraffe got its long neck, Seeker. What else would you like explained? The origin of the universe? We don't yet fully know, and may never know, but the beginning seems to have been something we call the big bang.
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That is a good start.

What causes the genetic mutations that are required for a long neck?

Then, what happens to me when I die?

Do I have free will?



The Devil said:
The problem with "god", as pointed out earlier, is that if you insist that every complex thing must have a creator, then that leaves the question: who or what created god? Saying "god has always existed" means that not every complex thing requires a creator, which was the initial premise.
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That's nearly good logic.

For your argument to work, however, there is a basic assumption that God exists in the same time / space / dimensions we exist in. That may, or may not be true.

The Devil said:
None of this disproves god, just as no-one can prove that there isn't a 1955 Cadillac in orbit around Saturn, for instance. The Cadillac & god seem equally unlikely, but neither can ever be ruled out.
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You see. You're getting the idea. ;)
 
Czechchris said:
Those who believe the Bible believe that God is a source of infinite power and energy, who has always existed, but at one point decided to create other beings to enjoy life with him.
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Why the bullsh#t games of suffering and cruelty if God is real? There is no explanation which would justify such behavior.

Hiding behind a statement of "we are mere mortals and cannot understand His plan" doesn't cut it. Suffering and cruelty are inhumane and clearly violating what compassion you claim your deity has.
 

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