[Review] Getting animated

bottleneck said:
problem with the marmite analogy (as has been said) is that nobody would dispute that marmite has a taste.

the blue box is asking people to accept that a technology that is hiddent from view, and completely seperate to the hifi affects the way it sounds.
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Plus the fact that Marmite has an ingredients list saying exactly what products you are putting on your toast. So, really, it is a completely useless analogy.

A better analogy would be that putting the Marmite pot on the table in front of you while you eat will change the way you think the food tastes. And it probably could, but it would be doing it vicariously in one way or another. But some people would refuse to accept that is the most likely explanation and claim the Marmite pot really is changing the food. Probably becasue that special pot of Marmite costs 700 squid :JOEL:
 
bottleneck said:
problem with the marmite analogy (as has been said) is that nobody would dispute that marmite has a taste.

the blue box is asking people to accept that a technology that is hiddent from view, and completely seperate to the hifi affects the way it sounds.
Click to expand...

This issue comes in two parts as far as I can make out. Firstly, is there an audible effect irrespective of what is claimed by the manufacturer, even though it is lamentably inadequate, but may have a reason for being so? Secondly, if there is an effect is it objectively measurable? It has to be in that sequence I'm afraid because the latter is a waste of time without the former.

What our friend Zanash is doing is attempting by the best way he knows how to put this device in the proximity of people and asking if they are perceiving any effect. OK it isn't a controlled test in the strictest sense, beyond the hooey it isn't even clear what the device SHOULD be doing, but so far their are some consistencies in the responses. Now I am quite sure if he had a sample of one he wouldn't bother telling anyone and if he had a sample of 30 individuals with 95%+ saying in negative terms there was nothing to be heard, again I would doubt his postings would have followed the track they have. That they have materialised as that positive ratio of folks that have said they heard a difference of variable magnitude means it's formed the basis of a discussion, nothing more, nothing less.
 
bottleneck said:
problem with the marmite analogy (as has been said) is that nobody would dispute that marmite has a taste.

the blue box is asking people to accept that a technology that is hiddent from view, and completely seperate to the hifi affects the way it sounds.
Click to expand...

yep.....its very difficult. As I have said before I would not have considered this as anything but something from way left field, if I had not heard it with my own ears ...

and thats all I'm asking people to do is give it the benifit of the doubt ...once you've heard it ..then make your mind up ...simple as that...but oh no

I'm still to see any comments about speedy's post .....

my offer to bring it over to the none believers still stands ....strange I've had no takers, all those free thinking open minded types ?
 
Ok...

I've contacted an acquaintance who's head of science at a large secondary school.....assuming I get permission to run a few none destructive test ....

what would people think I should try .......

[imo stupid answers make the poster look doubly stupid ]

I was thinking of testing the effect to see what it might have on Brownian motion .......

I'm all ears ..as they say
 
zanash said:
Ok...

I've contacted an acquaintance who's head of science at a large secondary school.....assuming I get permission to run a few none destructive test ....

what would people think I should try .......

[imo stupid answers make the poster look doubly stupid ]

I was thinking of testing the effect to see what it might have on Brownian motion .......

I'm all ears ..as they say
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You go easy on that Brownian Motion business, it could lead to all sorts of trouble :D
 
what would people think I should try .......
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If it does anything it must emit something, and there has to be a limited amount of things such a device can emit. I'd certainly try and measure sound output, i.e. does it emit any HF signal above the audio band. Personally I think this is unlikely as the descriptions don't indicate a suitable aperture in the casework and it would be next to impossible to get really high frequencies to pass through a heavy solid aluminium disc – it needs measuring though as it could explain the effect (and also why it is not always heard). The only other things I can think of are whether it is doing anything to the environment, i.e. deionising or somehow removing static charge from the surrounding air etc, I'm not sure how one would measure this - I'm sure Tones would know.

Tony.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of measuring test tones, noise, music etc through a hifi.

I would then compare the charted output with the same hifi (same room, same test tones etc), but now with the animator in place.

As for 'what type of charts?' well, the kind I read on Stereophile's review pages would be fine.

The problem with measuring the device in seclusion - we're not looking at the amount/if any of sonic differences to the output of the hifi.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of measuring test tones, noise, music etc through a hifi.
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That as well. I feel there is an argument to first try and identify what the device actually does and then measure how / if it interacts with an audio system. The trouble being that the Phonosophie blurb is such utter audiophool marketing bullshit it give no clues whatsoever.

Tony.
 
Tony ...nobody buys the blurb we've been through that ...lets move on ?

would imodium stop a brownian motion ?

In my contact with the science department ...guess what was suggested ......yep spot on ....smoke !!

I've still not had conformation as to even if this is possible .....If this falls through I've put out some other feelers..

lets not get too tied up in speculation ie ..it must be emmiting something ...

rather lets see if we can get a measurement of what its doing ...bottlenecks idea is heading in the right direction ...but remember I'm as much in the dark ....

Still no discussion of speedy's observations ?
 
TBH pete, I've never put any store by 'my wife heard this' 'my son heard the fiddler' 'my daughter heard the conductor fart' etc..

As you say, all we have are some people saying one thing, some people saying another.

For me, I'm no stranger to internet hype. I have a sonic T amp in front of me that could be shown a clean set of heels by a £30 Rotel amp from Ebay (just one example), another - tried many tweaks that wives, daughters etc have heard.. from green pens to c.d. cleaning fluid - I don't put any store by 99% of them..

To move on from that (and the dodgy blurb etc), it's time to see what the thing does/does not do..

I reckon (personal opinion) if we'd had good scientific explanation of the product from Phonosophie in the 1st few posts, this thread would have died ages ago.

None of that is the fault of anyone - apart from the manufacturer for creating a sealed box with a high ticket price, and orrible blurb..
 
yes probably...as uncle ants says ....they may just not know themselves .....they may have stumbled across this doing something else ?

The tamp needs a decent pot and it flies get a alps blue shoe horned in ! its got no guts and runs on the first couple of watts only, above about three it clips ....but imaging is to die for....[pot less mini power amp] but no grunt sounded fantastic driving the mid and treble of my statics with a grunty valve bottom end ...but why would you match £25 amp with 3k speakers ?

Point taken .....about the daughter wife thing .....but straight up, what he described is what happened .... to the letter, nothing added or taken away [which is just as it should be, as he is professional expert witness ]
 
There was a comment earlier about making ozone....

Ultraviolet light of sufficiently short wavelength can generate ozone out of air by direct irradiation, so no outlet needed. It's used industrially in all sorts of processes. Unfortunately that's definitely not within the energy budget of this little device... nor UV LEDs, yet.
 
Tony ...nobody buys the blurb we've been through that ...lets move on
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It is necessary to establish what the device is!

lets not get too tied up in speculation ie ..it must be emmiting something ...
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It is either emitting / manipulating something or it is doing absolutely nothing. Those are the only possible choices this side of religion. If it is emitting / manipulating something I want to know exactly what it is so as we can establish if it is a benefit or a pleasant sounding distortion, i.e. does it take one closer or further away from the truth.

Tony.
 
true enough!... and lots of people saying nothing you mean? lol.

Pete, think I have an old alps blue pot kicking about, it came out of my pre when I upgraded it.

Do you remember by chance what size of pot I need ..I'm not too technical, I get my friends to do all the DIY for me... is it 50, or 100 or something else? think the one I have is 50
 
Love to mate !


Ok......having had a few thoughts over night .....

this morning I set up the deq with ecm 800 mic .....

the deq was set to bypass, and outputing pink noise, the scale was set to give the biggest range but with all the freq range showing ... the scale was set to average with peak hold on.

this was so any changes would show by a difference of the peak hold and the current scale...averageing the readings keeps the graph fairly static and eliminates transients like camera noise.

I allowed the system to run for about ten minutes on pink noise ...

tenson's the expert here so may be he can suggest things or use the right terminology.

initially I set this up with the blue light off .....but it quickly became apparent that the blue light in my system adds ....so the first photo shows the freq response with the blue light on after about 10 minutes and the second with the blue light off .....the time difference was about 8 minutes after the unit had been switched off..

this shows a clear difference between on and off ....the change across the range averages 0.4 db [64.6db-65db] ...specific freq. show between 1 and 3 db changes .....in total 21 changes across the range .....

this was repeated six times with near identical results ....

picutures to follow
 
Here are the pics

too small !

if any body want the originals pm me .....

I'll work on getting them bigger in the mean time

bigger ones now added .......[though all my other pics are deleted]
 
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try this.......first pic is blue light on second pic blue light off...
by clicking on and off these you should be able to see the difference
 
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