Technics SL1200/1210 debate

The grainy reference is not to silicon or sand, it is to sound. A picture can also be grainy but there is no sand.

Transistor amps are referred to as sand amps due to the use of silicon. It is only incidental that they also sound 'grainy' for want of a better word that avoids any reference to the material used.

 

So what does 'grainy' sound like?

Photographs are grainy at some lavel because photographs are produced from materials containing light sensitive grains. There is no meaningful analogy to sound.

Paul

 

Sandy amplification

Funny I never see valve amplifiers described as sounding 'metalic' - yet the internal plates and structures are mostly metal.
Often see them described as warm sounding though, presumably because they get warm and have a warm glow.
Another example of listening with the eyes instead of the ears.

 

No listening with eyes or with notions of materials used I'm afraid. This graininess is conspicuous in its absence. Upsampling CD players impart their own sheen-like texture to the sound which is audible through valve amps but not through solid state. Messing with sampling rate settings on my Bel Canto CD2 I can also impart the same sheen on the 192 compared to the 96 or 48 settings through my valve amps.

Natural musical textures i.e. the harmonic structure of instruments that enables you to identify the particular instrument (or even particular guitar pick-up) are clearly audible where this inherent grainy texture, the one stamped all over every sound passing through solid state amps, is absent.

 

Yeah, funny that. This defeats your simplistic argument somewhat, don't you think?

I actually stated that the amps I use do NOT sound warm. That is also rather strange given how we all listen with our eyes and preconceptions and cannot possibly trust our ears.

 

So, given you have a solid state front end, how does your system escape being continually grainy?

Anyway how about some examples of recordings where your valve amp allows guitar pickups to be identified due to its absence of grain, it seems like a good opportunity to set up a comparison where you can trust your ears.

Paul

 

I have never seen the phrase "sand amp" before. It's possibly the most retarded and useless idea I've read all week, though, because when you try to come up with an equivalent phrase to describe valve amplifiers, you get - <durrrrrrrrrrrr> - "sand amp".

The glass in valve amplifiers is made out of sand, too.

 

You will have to pop round and have a listen for that one. A computer setup will tell you nothing.

 

sand amp is just a terms used by manufacturers and followers of jules verne hifi to deride a particularly amplification technology. funnily enough they fail to see the humour in the fact that there's significantly more sand in your typical valve than there is in your typical transistor.

never the less, the time step PSU is an absolute fucking rip and provides no proven measurable improvement to the function of the deck. Sure the voltage line is cleaner, but that has not been shown to improve the stability of the deck or the motor noise.

So what use is it?

Steven, when i heard your set-up it wasn't gracefully reducing dynamics like a race car driver slipping the clutch mid turn to gain more traction- it was just sounding shit, hard, compressed, and sat on with a biting treble

 

Did I mention you?

No.

It was a general observation for which you don't have to look very far to see some evidence. Perhaps you missed the 'often see them described' bit.
Granted, if you insist on driving your valve into clipping it probably won't sound very warm

 

What does that mean?

Regardless, I'm interested to know what tracks a solid state amp distorts sufficiently to obscure the nature of the guitar pickup.

Paul

 

Simon, as we established several pages ago it was too bloody loud.

 

Looking on the bright side, at least it wasn't grainy, like all transistor amplifiers ;-)

 

Should have used cassette tape for the source.

 

Wot a life!

This thread's got a bit weird again?

Is anyone on this forum running two systems, one valve, one solid-state?

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts about their relative merits.

 

I do, but they are both relatively cheap and I can't be that critical a listener, since I enjoy both systems despite their differences.

 

Hi Dev - that's just how I'd sum up my situation too!

 

Since all the awkward questions have been ducked, time for a quick recap. Here are the amazing new discoveries:

The £4000 "giant-killing" Timestep-equipped Technics turns out to be dynamically challenged, and struggles with low bass.

Valve amplifiers iron out the inherent "grain" of solid-state CD players.

What a heap of sh

 

...so why are you still on this strand then?

If you've not learned anything, or you feel there's nothing to learn (because you know better anyway; perfectly possible of course), then it's not compulsory to stay here, Mr The Devil!

Your summary is true, insofar as it goes. But it's like saying "The US is very big and is next to Canada". It somewhat misses the nuances! Is it because you couldn't grasp the nuances, or you're not interested in them?

"The nation should be told!"

 

If you say so James.

A DAC with a valve output stage that I am going to hear on Monday will hopefully strip away even more grain.