Technics SL1200/1210 debate

Guy's

I have a 1210 with the Timestep ' it does make quite a difference.

1st of all i noticed that timing and rhythms seemed much more fluid in fact slightly looser or more relaxed ' before it sounded almost too tight and rigid or etched ' if you like .

I could say it sounded a bit more like a good belt drive perhaps
a lot of user's have said the 1200 can sound a bit dark and shut in ' many believe the rubber mat is responsible for this ,
i would say its the transformer sitting underneath the platter.

When i fitted the PSU i took out this lump of a thing and my GOD its like a thick pair of curtains has been lifted from the music , or a blanket of fog .

I can't quite put it into the right word's the way David Price can
but if you have a 1210 this is the most important upgrade you can make to this deck ' if you already have a high quality deck i do not suggest junking it ' but to anyone on a tight budget the techy/timestep is GVFM.
 
Steven Toy said:
So therefore you wouldn't know what, say, a Time Step PSU'd 1210 with a Jelco tonearm is capable of, sonically.
Click to expand...

I know we've moved beyond this, but I just wanted to add that I'm currently listening to a Jelco 750 something or other at home and I find its performance roughly in line with its price. It's good value, but no giant slayer. A bit thin and gets confused earlier than some other arms; this with an Ortofon headshell and an Ortofon Rondo Bronze.
 
Indeed decent enough arms for the price,Markus have you tried one of the 'Ortofon' Jelco's at home? We used them in Munich and whilst they didn't scream quality they were ok.
 
murray johnson said:
T[... deleted ...] The old SL110 was one such but most of the Japanese majors made cut price DD's with decent measured speed stability & awful sound. Some of that is down to the flimsy structures the motors were fitted to but not all of it.[... deleted ...]
Click to expand...

I think that sums it up, my take on chronology goes something like...

First generation - things like the SL110 that demonstrated the technology was viable, and paved the way for...
Second generation - identifying the defects (in implementation) and offering a number of good/excellent products, which in turn paved the way for...
Third generation - the marketing and cost-cutting guys found ways to present the "technology" in ever-cheapening successor products. Exploiting Joe Public's gullibility and propensity to believe that they can get something for nothing.

Which is a path we can see all too often with boys-toys products of all varieties.
 
David Price said:
Well no it isn't Rob; if both stock and 3rd party PSUs turn it 0.02% WRMS or suchlike, then clearly it doesn't explain why one sounds better (or more rhythmically correct) than the other!

It's also important to point out that such measurements don't account for dynamic wow, and how the motor responds to short-term demands. This is likely to have just as much effect as vibration pathways, and is constantly overlooked. Would you assess a car solely by simply driving it at 56MPH and assessing how easily it stays at that speed?
Click to expand...

It does if you measure the thing properly.
If you are going to give dynamic wow as a factor, you really need to give some supporting evidence, otherwise it remains nothing more than an interesting theory.
 
Paul Ranson said:
The interesting Timestep SL1210 mod is the 'motor dynamics mod'. The PSU is just a PSU, I reckon we could evaluate the effects on the SL1210 with any number of DC supplies, the DIY world is not short of these. A tweaked Naim SNAPS (or equivalent) would probably do...

Paul
Click to expand...

The Timestep looks to be just a standard LM317 based psu, shouldn't be hard to build something similar http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/SL1200 PSU.htm
 
chrissyman said:
Guy's

I have a 1210 with the Timestep ' it does make quite a difference.

1st of all i noticed that timing and rhythms seemed much more fluid in fact slightly looser or more relaxed ' before it sounded almost too tight and rigid or etched ' if you like .

I could say it sounded a bit more like a good belt drive perhaps
a lot of user's have said the 1200 can sound a bit dark and shut in ' many believe the rubber mat is responsible for this ,
i would say its the transformer sitting underneath the platter.

When i fitted the PSU i took out this lump of a thing and my GOD its like a thick pair of curtains has been lifted from the music , or a blanket of fog .

I can't quite put it into the right word's the way David Price can
but if you have a 1210 this is the most important upgrade you can make to this deck ' if you already have a high quality deck i do not suggest junking it ' but to anyone on a tight budget the techy/timestep is GVFM.
Click to expand...

Hi Chrissyman,

Have just got the timestep power supply mod on your deck or are there any other mods.

SCIDB
 
quote

RobHolt said:
Might be worth mentioning that the best DD TTs get W&F down to 0.02% - but an error of just 1mm off centre at the spindle will bump that to over 0.1%.
Very few discs are perfectly centred and many have far greater errors.

Just a bit of perspective.

*An old 1700mk2, a direct but very similar ancestor to the 1200 produced 0.05% w&f, no measurable slowing under load (2g tracking cartridge) and weighted motor unit noise figures of -79db.
Those figures are actually better than an SP10/2.


*M Colloms HFC 1981.
Click to expand...

the 1700 mk 11 with the sme 3009 mk2 and sure v15 was an icom in the 70's that perhaps revolutionise british t/t maufacturers.
nando.
 
SCIDB said:
Hi Chrissyman,

Have just got the timestep power supply mod on your deck or are there any other mods.

SCIDB
Click to expand...

Hi

Well i have fitted a set of Isonoe feet ' also changed the phono leads with some Van damme cable ' using the stock arm with a sumiko headshell .

Just for the record i have used in the past a fully loaded LP12 and later a Voyd .5 reference psu
 

Attachments

  • DSCF0153.jpg
    DSCF0153.jpg
    99 KB · Views: 271
Hi Chrissyman,

Interesting stuff. Did you try the Time step supply as the first mod?

SCIDB
 
1st thing i tried was the Isonoe feet , made a subtle but worthwhile improvement , the Sumiko headshell was next .

the Van damme leads are a very worthwhile upgrade for peanuts , but the stock arm is really limited of course .

I have tried a few mat's but none fit properly , the herbie's mat from soundhifi seems the best bet !.

I think its fair to say the sound or presentation of the 1200/1210
is very similar to that of a very good CD player and i can understand many people not liking it even with the timestep.
 
I have never bothered with the stock arm.
My SL-1210 has a custom off deck traffo and DIY PSU and Foculpod feet other than that it is standard.
First I tried an all O.L modded Rega RB250. Detailed but rather flat sounding.

I then tried an Parallel tracking Terminator air arm - huge improvement over the Rega but stil what I will describe as 2D and a big lumpen.

I then got a PL-71 and that blew the 1210 away on boogie factor and what I will describe as musicality - 3D and the opposite of lumpen (whatever that is?).
The SL-1210 sat in the corner for a while.
Having tried different mats on the PL-71 and finding they change the way the notes tripped of the thing I tried the SL-1210 with the favoured PL-71 mat. Pretty good - This was with the air arm.
I then made an arm board for the Technics to take the PL-71 arm.
The result is really rather good.
All the pitch stability of the Techi but with the boogie factor of the PL-71.


All of the above was with the same 33PTG cart and phono stage.

Now I can switch arms easily and will live with both decks for the foreseeable future.

Some have said a modded 1210 really needs a good arm. Preferably SME or Jelco. Some rate the PL-71 very highly. I think the arm is a good one.

I think the modified SL-1210 is a good deck and deserves a good arm.
Those who think it sounds like a CD player - have you put the right arms, mats and carts on it?
 
Steven Toy said:
James, for the last eight years you have truly had a winning formula for cliché avoidance.
Click to expand...

I have truly avoided ever typing:

evergreen
unfathomably good
rock-solid bass
heart-stopping dynamics
cat amongst the pigeons
superb
atop
aficionados
strongly articulated
spacious
inky blackness (!)
airiness
breathtaking
immediacy
signature
nasties
monochrome tonality
groove
vice-like grip
metronomic timing
intrusive
musical flow
vocal inflections in all their subtle glory
enamoured
sucking .. the emotion out of a performance
mellifluous
tangible sound
rhythmic flow
foibles
dyed-in-the-grain (shurely wool?)

That's enough cliches.
 


Write your reply...

Latest posts

Back
Top