Turntable choices

Originally posted by Marco
The scientifically-minded amongst us require everything to be proven, and the rest of us simply use our ears (and our experience) to judge, or form opinions about hi-fi; I have my suspicions it's because of their lack of the latter, that many of the scientifically-minded folks rely so heavily on the former

Marco.
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Does this mean a lack of ears and experience or just a lack of experience or, perhaps, just a simple lack of ears?
 
Originally posted by Marco
It's the old argument again isn't it? The scientifically-minded amongst us require everything to be proven, and the rest of us simply use our ears (and our experience) to judge, or form opinions about hi-fi...
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More wuffley thinking. I'm not asking for anything "to be proven", what I'm saying is that colorations in hi-fi equipment can't inject 'emotion' into a piece of music if it's not already present in the recording.

Simple enough.
 
Originally posted by Lord

When you asked me how I had got my platter level I told you I had used a spirit level on the platter and on the plinth...
You then told me that just making sure the plinth was level would not guarantee getting the platter level...! :rolleyes:
Now you have presumed to tell everyone that my views do not count because I did not get my platter level! :mad:
Incredible!
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You didn't use a circular concentric level over the spindle with the platter running. This is the only way, sorry.
 
Originally posted by Paul Ranson



Clearly the number of accessible people competent to setup LP12s is reducing. AFAICT the only other generally recommendable turntables are the Regas and Michells. The others are all of very limited availability, (so you can't expect to get a demo), from very small tweaky companies (so you can't have much confidence in a 30 or more year service life) or don't have lids so you can't pile CDs on them.

LP12Cat.jpg


Paul
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I think its fair to say that Linn are large for a specialist hifi manufacturer, and the back up theyve provided the LP12 with since the 1970's is commendable.

I would say though that alternative makes such as Project, Kuzma, NOS are readily available nationwide, and have been manufacturing and supporting their turntables for decades aswell.

I could look up dates from the website, but Im a bit busy at the mo.

I dont see any reason why a deck by Kuzma for example (fantastic engineering on their products) wont be providing sterling service in 30 years. AFAIK they have been manufacturing and servicing their products for longer than this.

Its a fair point on turntable covers being absent from some modern decks, but funnily Im not missing that at all with my new deck. I have even heard it said (by HenryT I think and others) that detaching the lid on a gyro/orbe improves the sound - perhaps with an LP12 too? However I never tried this.

Nice cat BTW

Chris
 
Originally posted by notaclue

I don't see how hi-fi can 'improve' on the master tape in terms of 'music' unless someone prefers 'music' warmer, smoother etc. or simplified.
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It's more about how a particular hi-fi component, or system, communicates the music to the listener, rather than the introduction of euphony. In my experience, the better ones combine fidelity to the original sound with an ability to make the performance 'believable'.

However, that is only my opinion; it is a complicated and largely subjective subject, which one could debate forever.

Marco.
 
Originally posted by The Devil
You didn't use a circular concentric level over the spindle with the platter running. This is the only way, sorry.
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why is that the only way ?
If a platter is made level as it should be then any level should suffice if used along both axis of the plane to ensure level in both axis.
That is just plain mech engineering sense
 
Originally posted by bottleneck
Nice cat BTW

Chris
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He took that to remind him of what a fat ***** looks like on top of a twelve inch me thinks.

Ot maybe the added mass of said overweight feline adds greatly to the bass definition. Tell me Paul, have you tried spiking the cat?
 
Originally posted by penance
why is that the only way ?
If a platter is made level as it should be then any level should suffice if used along both axis of the plane to ensure level in both axis.
That is just plain mech engineering sense
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Try doing this with the platter turning! The level changes when the platter is turning, compared with when stationary. It obviously needs to be level when rotating.

it is a complicated and largely subjective subject, which one could debate forever.
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Poppycock.
 
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Originally posted by Marco
It's more about how a particular hi-fi component, or system, communicates the music to the listener, rather than the introduction of euphony. In my experience, the better ones combine fidelity to the original sound with an ability to make the performance 'believable'.
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Possibly, but I'd probably say it all comes to down to simple changes in 'sound' rather than anything more, ummm, 'magical'.
 
'Emotional injection' this really is Devil twaddle, especially from one aiming for mastertape accuracy. Emotion in music is conveyed to me mostly by dynamics, timing, playing all of the notes with believable phrasing, and horor of round earth horrors, dropping the noise floor as far as it will go - the silences are vital in Classical music. Sorry to say that the venerable LP12 is bettered with ease in all these areas by many other decks whether you can measure the fact or not.

PS Yesterday RKR fitted a Memera unit and RCBOs and removed an unneccessary metre. Result: huge increases in all the things that make music emotional. Probably all that could be measured is a 3V gain in the supply. All this is as yet without the uprated 10mm spurs.

PPS Naim preamps are still variable.
 
Originally posted by Marco
. In my experience, the better ones combine fidelity to the original sound with an ability to make the performance 'believable'.
.

Marco.
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I'll go one further than "poppycock" and use the old ZG favourite "Bollox"

Have you ever heard mastertape Marco? Clearly not or you wouldn't dream of using the word "believeable" when it comes to any hifi whatsoever.
 
Originally posted by The Devil
...what I'm saying is that colorations in hi-fi equipment can't inject 'emotion' into a piece of music if it's not already present in the recording.
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Er, Alex, what I'm saying is that this alleged 'emotion' (dread hi-fi mag buzzword that it is) can't be added in later by the gear if it is not already present on the loathed and despised mastertape.

I agree about lowering the noise-floor, this is very important. That's how the 'Ninja' got its name. Silent assassin.
 
Originally posted by The Devil
Try doing this with the platter turning! The level changes when the platter is turning, compared with when stationary. It obviously needs to be level when rotating.


Poppycock.
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Ah
is that one of the LP12 foibles?

Im guessing here, but are you saying that the suspension changes under torque from the motor?
 
Besides VPi and clearaudio to name two would be a little pissed off to be discounted as "tweaky companies" and they are much more widely available than you imply
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Like where?

Clearaudio and VPi definitely qualify as 'tweaky'. They're designed without any regard for long term usability, which is part of what engineering is all about.

I'm inclined to dismiss any turntable that requires a clamp as impractical. And any that don't supply a lid are really taking the piss, it's not like it need cost much. Not to mention that acrylic seems a really inappropriate material for an object that's intended to be handled. It's almost like a fad for a construction style when you look at the range of turntables currently available.

Paul
 
Im guessing here, but are you saying that the suspension changes under torque from the motor?

No, the motor pulley has a curve on it. When stationary, the belt rests at the bottom of the pulley on a small-radius section (i.e. it's slacker). On start-up, the belt climbs up to a larger-radius part, hence increasing the force exerted on the inner platter towards the motor pulley. Since the platter is suspended...

Merlin, it kills the tune.
 
Originally posted by Paul Ranson
I'm inclined to dismiss any turntable that requires a clamp as impractical. Paul
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Ah so Vpi's are OK then? The Clamp is optional and has a subjective affect.

Can someone explain the advantages and disadvantages of a two piece platter and felt mat to me please?
 
They ought to. Whether they do or not is down to us to find out using a proper level. I'm lucky (?) with my TT: if the Mana is level, the platter is. With my previous LP12 this wasn't the case, and it caused no end of grief trying to level it, as you can imagine.
 
Ah so Vpi's are OK then? The Clamp is optional and has a subjective affect.
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Any turntable you like is OK.

Although it isn't confidence inducing if the manufacturer cannot determine whether the clamp is a good thing or not. What's your opinion?

Can someone explain the advantages and disadvantages of a two piece platter and felt mat to me please?
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Why?

Perhaps you could explain the advantages of closely coupling the record to a mass that has very similar material characteristics.

Paul
 

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