A challenge / scientific research involving Bub

Ah but James, when you get rid of that Naim stuff, you will be able to see the musicians in between the ATC's and not need an alternative view

 

Hi, well I was invited many moons ago, but I think WM knows that the mickey will be taken. For months.

 

Merlin is correct to point,
I have redesigned the output stage on the Wadia, this had the effect of deepening the bass, and dropping the cut off well below the room mode, thus negating the vast majority of the problem.

 

Hi Merlin. Since going up to phase nine under the sources and preamp, the ATCs seem to be nodding in the general direction of imaging. Which is most odd and rather disconcerting in a 'FE' system. I wonder what more Mana would bring.

 

Does not make any sense at all...

 

Sorry Tony but the Wadia is flat to 18hz at the output stage. You system effectively brickwalls at 32hz so it is unlikely that you are getting any real interaction between the two.

 

Mike Must be all that foo foo dust then
Allowing the lower orders to reach their fullest potential

 

There are many ways to change the nature of your system's bass as you well know Tony, but getting greater actual extension out of existing kit seems hard to me.

Of course shelving the high frequencies down could have a similar effect

 

Hopefully it will rid your system of that acursed imaging and you can get back to listening to music and watching the neighbours.

 

Once I have my new toys, should you find yourself near central Somerset you must pop in and I will demonstrate said effect.

 

Too right. You still can't get round the old laws of physics.

Still, I must admit to being very surprised, in fact stunned, by the tightening up of the bass that resulted from my changing a few inches of internal speaker cable for the Cheltenham variety - although I don't rule out the possibility that Tone puts something into the coffee (or maybe those chocolate biscuits).

 

Precisely

In your case it was speaker cable. In my case it was mains cable. The received wisdom is that every system is different, but what remains the same is that this tightening up of the bass dramatically reduces the effect of room interaction.

 

I have to agree. I cannot offer an explanation for this effect but 'reducing the effect of room interaction' is exactly how I'd describe it.

If it was the speaker cables only, I would suspect high-pass filtering but with mains cables having such an effect (well any effect at all is actually quite strange) there has to be some kind of 'cleaning out the shit' going on.

 

So you and Merlin are both right it reduces the effect of the interaction, but it's still there.

 

And there was me thinking this was a hifi forum

 

I too have experienced the bass tightening qualities of WM's cables - so I'm not saying they don't do it- just that the explanation lies elsewhere. Is it possible that they are reducing the group delay aparently inherent in analogue electronics ?

If that were the case, then it would have nothing to do with room modes. Another explanation would be a reduction in bass output, or a cleaner more extended treble (think of the effects of supertweeters).

For me anyway, i don't do this "tight bass" thing too much. Bass should breathe. Big bass, big warmth and solidity. Low bass will never sound tight - it should not anyway due to the size of the wavelength. Mid bass (80hz-160hz) is where this tightness comes from. Could it be that WM's cables are acting as a high pass and filtering out the low bass, giving the impression of greater speed and less overhang?

 

Tis a very pausable explanation, yet it seems to produce more body of bass and deeper too,my hollogram II was comprehensively disposed of, in the bass dept as well as every where else.
I have far deeper bass than I had before and more body/texture too. Its all about getting the balance right, every system has a different take on things, you just have to match the correct pieces od the puzzle, and when they fit grin factor 9 Captain

 

Hmmm, controversial stuff but how would that work with mains cables?

Anyway, I say we don't wait for the sheriff. I say we burn W-M now.

 

Hmm. I can't say WM as I've not been down for a while and I hear great reports. Still I reckon the only way to really find out would be to get the old test disc out along with the trusty RS meter and feed the system some warble tones.

Still, unless you are suffering from standing waves (which you are not) the only realistic ways I can think of to give the impression of tighter bass is to bandwidth limit at the bottom end, or extend the treble response. It would be interesting to know what is causing these improvements, which they undoubtedly are from all reports.

 

When we put the trick mains cable on the amp, the bass developed more impact and went deeper, but with less flab for want of a better word. I know I preferred it. It was much more engaging to listen to. I'm finding the sound a bit too warm and cuddly and a tad loose this evening.