Cable Happy.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Stereo Mic said:
But you have not even proved to yourself that you can hear differences! Let alone me or any independent witness. Come on! How am I supposed to take you seriously?
Click to expand...

errrr yes I have

try mailing Alex_A off wigwam forums , he was at my place when I swapped over my speaker cables and we both noticed a large difference in presentation.

Stop assuming because you were not present that it didnt happen.

Im off for a week after my nights next week , If you are up for the challenge still I pm you my phone number.

the test system is mine (monitor audio Gr-20s , Dussun V8i amp and Esound CD-E5 Speakers) , the test cables are mine and yours (nordost flatline gold bi-wire, anti-cables, profigold bass-reflex, zanash silver things and analogue research gold reference, qed qunex , home made gothams and silver cables) . It is not a quick A/B test as I have got certain music tracks which bring out certain instruments in the mix..

let me know if you are available or the next time you are up my way and if im off work feel free to come down :)

(also Im not after your digi IC as I dont need it)
 
That's not a listening test Wickfut - you have failed to remove suggestion from the equation. If you want to prove that you actually can hear differences, then take part in an ABX session. I believe we have been trying to organise something down here, but to date, the manufacturers seem reluctant to put their claims to the test....
 
Stereo Mic said:
Because if someone were to prove they could hear differences in cables under controlled conditions, I'm sure we'd all hear about it pretty quickly - aren't you? ;)
Click to expand...




right...got it.....

.....so you know they weren't hearing cable differences because [as far as we/you know!] they haven't passed a cable hearing test to prove that they CAN ...





hmmmmm......

nice logic

Must remember that one....






Stereo Mic said:
I really surprised you haven't tested yourself. You ask what the incentive is - surely having a repost to those of us backed by science would be enough?
Click to expand...


My dear chap, I'm not worried.......

I'm enjoying my hobby as it is.
 
Wickfut said:
ive posted this before on another thread a while back but nobody seemed to take any notice of it...

I cant find the original link now but I read a .pdf file in which someone took a frequency response plot chart of a sweep directly from an amps output and then took the same plot at the end of 10m of speaker cable.

They used about 10 different cables of various popular brands like kimber, QED etc and discovered that the different cables changed the responses.

ALL of the cables introduced dips and peaks but these dips and peaks were in different places depending on the cable.

Some of the cables had huge suckouts and peaks of upto +-10db and thus explained the differences in presentation of different cables.

Surely someone here has the ability to redo this experiment and post their findings.

I would imagine you would need a copy of soundforge or wavelab for the graphs , a CD or source with a full frequency sweep (once again easy to produce in soundforge/wavelab) and some gubbins to connect it all together.
Click to expand...

HiFi magazines have also printed such test results in the past. Hi Fi News in particular did a lenghy three issue article on the subject.

There have also been articles on ancillary input and output impedances, and like digital I would have thought it beneficial if any requirements were met, and also speaker/cable/amp interface articles.
 
darrylfunk said:
any amp designer or speaker designer knows these facts its basically power loss.

the criteria for speaker cable is well understood.

i still want proof that identical lcr cables of different conductors sound noticeably different and can be identified blind ,
but not a single cable supporter has posted any evidence.

end of.
Click to expand...

Of course this is completely different to the claims made by cable believers, where they hear a difference between two differently constructed cables, yet some still assume they are imagining it and such.
 
darrylfunk said:
any amp designer or speaker designer knows these facts its basically power loss.

the criteria for speaker cable is well understood.

i still want proof that identical lcr cables of different conductors sound noticeably different and can be identified blind ,
but not a single cable supporter has posted any evidence.

end of.
Click to expand...

Do we have proof that would turn HiFi journos heads showing that there are no diferences, we have a coin, but does it have two sides?
 
DavidF said:
right...got it.....

.....so you know they weren't hearing cable differences because [as far as we/you know!] they haven't passed a cable hearing test to prove that they CAN ...

.
Click to expand...

The only way to hear cable differences is using your ears. Any sighted test uses far too many senses to produce reliaible results David. It's not rocket science but it is science, and to this day stands unbowed by claims of wizardry and foo foo:D
 
SM - I think you're the single reason why this forum is dead on its feet...do us all a favour?
 
Stereo Mic said:
No. Children through tempers when they lose. Some never grow up.

Wickfut. You are right there is no argument. Until one of the faithful successfully demonstrates audible differences in electrically similar cables under controlled conditions, you are clearly open to the allegation that you are imagining it. The only way for any of your disciples of the silk dialectics to not lose this argument is for you to exclusively use your ears in a controlled experiment. Or show us anyone, any where on planet earth who has managed that feat. Until such time, it's all rather amusing to me except when some forumites are trying to fleece others for money.
Click to expand...

There is the crux, we can all be labeled, but they want audible differences in electrically similar cables. Most of the differences are described as audible with different cables from different manufacturers, do we have conclusive charts that these differences are heard by all and that the cables are all electrically similar?

Would the insulation of these cables play a part? Will 4mm copper strand sound different dependent on strand content, silver plated? silver?, what about solid core, PTFE? Silicon? PVC? Denim?

Lets label every everyone as hearing differences berween 4mm Van Damme and 4mm Van Damme.
 
sastusbulbas said:
Of course this is completely different to the claims made by cable believers, where they hear a difference between two differently constructed cables, yet some still assume they are imagining it and such.
Click to expand...

It seems regardless of the tomes of data and scientific studies produced, people don't want to accept the truth. What you will find is that every single bit of pseudo science produced by cable makers has been scientifically disproven here, other forums, the AES and in science labs the world over. No single argument for differences between electrically similar cables has ever stood up to scutiny which is why we are left with the rather sad "I heard it and so did my mate - U R deaf!" scenario as the last bastion of one's religious belief.
 
mr cat said:
SM - I think you're the single reason why this forum is dead on its feet...do us all a favour?
Click to expand...

I don't - I'm enjoying myself thanks. Before I started posting the place was simply full of pixies and elves and the laughing stock of the internet community. A change of readership perhaps. Of course, if some people stopped posting highly contentious drivel then it would be really dead. Face it - the place has been dead for years.
 
Stereo Mic said:
The only way to hear cable differences is using your ears. Any sighted test uses far too many senses to produce reliaible results David. It's not rocket science but it is science, and to this day stands unbowed by claims of wizardry and foo foo:D
Click to expand...


what are you saying ?

big shiny blue ones are subconciously seen as better?


nah...


if some on gave me bright pink one that sounded good it would worry me.....could always cover it up


cable size?


i've had some weedy loooky ones that have sounded good


don't think this is a strong arguement mike
 
DavidF said:
don't think this is a strong arguement mike
Click to expand...

Without wishing to offend, I don't really care what you think of the argument. I'm more interested in what legions of psychologists and behavioral scientists say on about the matter. If you bothered to read about the subject rather than try to defend the indefensible maybe you would understand the thinking behind the methodology.
 
Stereo Mic said:
It seems regardless of the tomes of data and scientific studies produced, people don't want to accept the truth. What you will find is that every single bit of pseudo science produced by cable makers has been scientifically disproven here, other forums, the AES and in science labs the world over. No single argument for differences between electrically similar cables has ever stood up to scutiny which is why we are left with the rather sad "I heard it and so did my mate - U R deaf!" scenario as the last bastion of one's religious belief.
Click to expand...

I think telling someone there is no audible difference between DNM solid core interconnect and Chord Anthem interconnect is where it gets silly, not about price but because if one hears a difference and they both clearly measure different you are still laughed at for saying it.

Another example, Naim Nac5 and VDH D-352.

A big difference between the above and some cable newbie buying 4mm copper from a supplier and fitting a nice mesh braid over it, and compairing it to another manufacturer with similar construction and materials.

I guess condutor spacing and weave make no measurable difference?
 
Stereo Mic said:
It seems regardless of the tomes of data and scientific studies produced, people don't want to accept the truth.
Click to expand...


what tomes are these MIke?



Stereo Mic said:
What you will find is that every single bit of pseudo science produced by cable makers has been scientifically disproven here, other forums, the AES and in science labs the world over. No single argument for differences between electrically similar cables has ever stood up to scutiny which is why we are left with the rather sad "I heard it and so did my mate - U R deaf!" scenario as the last bastion of one's religious belief.
Click to expand...




:rolleyes:
 
Sast,

please read my post again. Also try to do a search on LCR characteristics and cables. You are asking a question that has been answered a hundred times by a hundred people.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top