Cable Happy.

[sastusbulbas]

Without wishing to offend, I don't really care what you think of the argument. I'm more interested in what legions of psychologists and behavioral scientists say on about the matter. If you bothered to read about the subject rather than try to defend the indefensible maybe you would understand the thinking behind the methodology.

The problem with this is, and quite clearly also suited to other instances, psychological observation will not take into consideration the cables themselves, but assume and work with the psychological problems posed with the opinion of the belief system itself.

For instance why did you buy an amplifier?
Because I wanted it, it was an upgrade over the one I had.
And what made you feel you had to purchase another amplifier?

If the psychologist was into stereo equipment himself, would the opinion be different, or different methods used and any sort of sensible conclusion met? The investigation in itself is usually flawed due to the nature of the investigation itself. He believes there is a difference, infering it is him who believes not others, he feels compelled to spend more on another purchase of what he already has, infering no reason for the purchase.

 

[Stereo Mic]

David,

If you have a valid argument put it forward and let's debate it's merit. If you don't, then why not STFU? Making things personal is both a clear sign of losing an argument, and against the forum AUP.

 

[Stereo Mic]

its YOU who saying every one else is wrong and YOU are right

what percentage of the human population do you think believes in these cable differences? Same as in pixies or higher?

You'll find everyone else is actually right, it's only a few blessed souls on an internet forum in the backstreets of cyber city that you deem to classify as "everyone else" David. Maybe you need to get out a bit more

 

[sastusbulbas]

Sast,

please read my post again. Also try to do a search on LCR characteristics and cables. You are asking a question that has been answered a hundred times by a hundred people.

The problem is "electrically similar cables", not every cable believer is compairing electrically similar, therefor the belief that there is no difference is flawed as it is based on the conclusion that there can be no difference, because "electricaly simillar cables" measure similary.

Does DNM solid core 1m in length measure and sound the same as Chord Anthem 1m in length?

What happens to the measurement of DNM solid core if you un-space it, and gently twist it together, or weave it? Same conductor, any difference?

Again they are not "similar", just as many manufactured cables for audio use are not. Yet we get the argument about "simillar" cables.

 

[DavidF]

Without wishing to offend, I don't really care what you think of the argument. I'm more interested in what legions of psychologists and behavioral scientists say on about the matter. If you bothered to read about the subject rather than try to defend the indefensible maybe you would understand the thinking behind the methodology.

IMO that doesn't really back up you alligation in any shape or form, Mike.

Again show me this plethora of scientic proof that forum members have let cable apperances influence their judgement on cables?



BTW don't worry, I won't be offended in the slightest bit!

 

[bottleneck]

let's see...

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=pixies&word2=audio+cables

it's a close run thing...

 

[DavidF]

David,

If you have a valid argument put it forward and let's debate it's merit. If you don't, then why not STFU? Making things personal is both a clear sign of losing an argument, and against the forum AUP.

questioning YOUR reasoning, thats all

you have no obligation to answer!

its your arguements that are constantly on the attack, i think!




"If you don't, then why not STFU?"

...er, is that within forum AUP?



edit possible personal comment alstered...aplolgies.!

 

[Stereo Mic]

IMO

Again David, I'm not overly interested in your "O" - at least until you put it to the test and make it actually worthwhile. Again no offence - I just give more weight to the study of electronics and physics by learned professors than I do to someone who makes cones out of discarded bits of wood.

 

[DavidF]

Im sorry if II was less than polite earlier.....

I was just a little sceptical over you assertian that you're sure all the forum members were taken in by cable colour/appearance.

AS you say we are both busy people.......

(thank you for your time)

 

[anon_bb]

Mike - what you have failed to consider is that most of these guys have had their cables fitted by Elvis after being delivered by flying saucers piloted by arcturan mega-donkeys. They then meticulously douse the area for the best combination of feng shui and ley lines to determine speaker placement. Only a truly ignorant and deaf person could not realise the the obvious benefits of this holistic approach!!!

 

[DavidF]

Mike - what you have failed to consider is that most of these guys have had their cables fitted by Elvis after being delivered by flying saucers piloted by arcturan mega-donkeys. They then meticulously douse the area for the best combination of feng shui and ley lines to determine speaker placement. Only a truly ignorant and deaf person could not realise the the obvious benefits of this holistic approach!!!

damn, damn, damn....

hes guessed it!

 

[anon_bb]

Look all this talk about your cables is BS - everyone who is anyone and has any knowledge about cables knows that only those from Mothra Research can truly enhance your system to gigantic proportions.

http://www.meter.com/mothra/index.html

I suggest you also consider the audiophile amperes product - this area of system performance is often critically over looked

http://www.meter.com/mothra/power.html

Check it out guys - currently you are all losing 65.78 % of your system performance!!

 

[Bob McC]

if you cant hear it then something is wrong your end.

The ultimate fall back for the wiggly wire acolytes.

 

[sastusbulbas]

if you cant hear it then something is wrong your end.

The ultimate fall back for the wiggly wire acolytes.

No actually, probably not a fall back for the wigglies, more of an indication of reasonable hearing acuity.

What I find amusing is the way non-believers seem to be basing their belief system on a series of arguments conducted around "electrically similar cables" and arguing that those who may be hearing diferences between "electrically dis-similar cables" are hearing things.

I guess all amplifiers and speakers sound and measure the same also.

Oh and I forgot, various measurement tables taken of various cables are also invalid due to them being in an audio magazine, due to some paranoid belief that they are all after our money and working together.

Wait for the news, Russ Andrews and Paul miller caught snooping around people's windows. Crime ring busted.

 

[JCL]

A Blind A/B is the ONLY thing that will settle this. Until then it's just a round and round pissing contest.

 

[rollo]

if you cant hear it then something is wrong your end.

The ultimate fall back for the wiggly wire acolytes.

The only criteria for me to evaluate a cable is my ears. I'm not an Engineer nor Scientist.
You can talk all day long that cables do not sound different but in the end I know what I hear. No one can tell me what I hear and do not hear.
Have you ever listened to some of the so called exotic cables in your system. Do you have any first hand experience with your kit with say Nordst, Tara, Harmonix, MIT or the like? Are they worth the money? For me no but for someone who can afford them maybe.
Its all about the money marketing and probably some hyped up sales pitch IMO.
Interesting story. One of our club members Marcus is a High School science teacher with a doctorate in Physics. The most anti cable guy we know. One day when listening to his system of CJ amp and pre through Apogee Grands we changed his generic IC from Pre to Amp without him knowing when he was in the toilet. When he came back he took his seat and began to listen. He looked uneasy about something. Then he said why does the bass sound tighter and the presentation have more body. I know my system its unchanged for 20 years.
When we told him we swithed ICs he still would not admit it was the cable and began his scientific reasons as to why.
To make a long story short he bought the cables. Why cause they SOUNDED better. He has changed every cable since. Enough of the science I'll stick to my ears.

rollo

 

[Stereo Mic]

No actually, probably not a fall back for the wigglies, more of an indication of reasonable hearing acuity.

Oh come on Do some reading before posting please.

What I find amusing is the way non-believers seem to be basing their belief system on a series of arguments conducted around "electrically similar cables" and arguing that those who may be hearing diferences between "electrically dis-similar cables" are hearing things.

Let's clarify for you. In all probability 90-95% of cables are electrically similar. It's fairly simple to make a cable that does what is required of an audio cable. Just because one claims to have two strands of Elephant cock smeared in Mr P's sacred sperm does not make it in any way different elecrically speaking. All we care about are inductance, capacitance and resistance.

I guess all amplifiers and speakers sound and measure the same also.

No they don't. Nor do listening rooms.

Oh and I forgot, various measurement tables taken of various cables are also invalid due to them being in an audio magazine, due to some paranoid belief that they are all after our money and working together.

Link to definitive evidence showing audible differences then? You can't. There isn't any.

Wait for the news, Russ Andrews and Paul miller caught snooping around people's windows. Crime ring busted.

Well Russ's manager was gobsmacked when he couldn't pick out the Kimber Silver Spunk Strand under controlled conditions. I suspect you too would be astonished at the power of your imagination were you only to test it

 

[unclepuncle]

A Blind A/B is the ONLY thing that will settle this. Until then it's just a round and round pissing contest.

Except a pissing contest would be far more entertaining and enlightening than this thread could ever hope to be.
Mind you theres so much willy waving going on it could get very messy

 

[zanash]

even that won't persuade the "I don't want to listen because I know it makes no difference" brigade....

lets presuppose you get several people together say a sceptic a beliver and some one in neither camp .....how do you untangle if two of the three hear a difference but the none believe always says there is none.....?

A little witty aside .....I did this with a few mates years ago ....with a curtain hiding the gear ...the none believer everytime said there was no difference ..the trouble was the last change was the cdp and the cables were kept the same .....just goes to show ....years latter he was able to see the funny side and now admits that what ever was done he was going to say it made no difference. this was down to his mind set at the time.

long winded but gets to the nub .....if people have deluded themselves into thinking theres no difference then there not going to hear one ......its called face saving [especially if they think they know best and everyone else is on a different planet]

 

[Stereo Mic]

lets presuppose you get several people together say a sceptic a beliver and some one in neither camp .....how do you untangle if two of the three hear a difference but the none believe always says there is none.....?

Google "ABX" then you might understand. I can't believe you appear to be so ignorant of such testing methodology when you are supposedly manufacturing "upgrades"