So Thorsten has broken cover ...

[The Devil]

Without a home demo, one can only say: "I didn't care for such-and-such a speaker in so-and-so's system & room." No more or less than that. Even with a home demo, all you can say is "I liked/disliked such-and-such a speaker in my system & room."

Personally, I've never heard better speakers than the ATC actives, but that is not the same thing as saying better speakers don't exist. I doubt, however, that I will find better speakers than mine (ATC 100A SL) for £4000, or less.

...I presented my own take on the subject...

Yes, but it made no sense!

 

[anon_bb]

No if I go to a shop and my ears hurt I dont need a home demo. Shop demos dont prove something is what you want - but it can proove that it isnt quite easily. In this case accross multiple demos of atc speakers.

Try actually listening to some other speakers at the same price level rather than bariks.

It made no sense to you.

 

[andyoz]

Someone sure got out of bed the wrong side today. I think the kudos flying in T's direction is really annoying some people.

 

[bottleneck]

I've heard numerous rubbish shop demos, so now I've given them up. What I haven't heard is a system in anyone's else's home that I prefer to mine. But this may well be due to the room.

How are you getting on in your cramped quarters?

I'm sure it's a combination of those 2 factors Bub. You have some excellent components, in a nice big room.

(difficult to go wrong!)

by the way, weren't you experimenting with phono stages recently? how did you get on?

 

[The Devil]

Hi Chris,

I never really reached the stage of experimentation: a chum had a Whest phono stage lying about, so I bought that one. It seems pretty good AFAICT, it just gets on with the job. I can't compare it with any others. During my arm-lead-nuisance time, it went back to Whest for a check-up, and they kindly optimised the gain for my Transfiguration Spirit. The whole thing sounds rather jolly. One recent visitor was kind enough to say that it was the first time she'd heard a Naim system play music.

 

[wadia-miester]

I've since washed the wax out of Neils ears James

 

[Stereo Mic]

Someone sure got out of bed the wrong side today. I think the kudos flying in T's direction is really annoying some people.

Amusing I suspect Andy - not annoying.

No if I go to a shop and my ears hurt I dont need a home demo

Glad I didn't bother humping those PMC's back from Heathrow then. Godawful racket to my ears- and the two studio engineers I was touring the show with.

 

[The Devil]

Neil seemed like a splendid fellow, with very good taste. Did I put him off the ATC plan?

 

[Tenson]

How are you getting on in your cramped quarters?

Its next door to Camden and fully sound-proof. The man is pretty much surrounded by drugs, women and rock and roll! I mean what more could one wish for?!

 

[sideshowbob]

What's "next door to Camden" supposed to mean? Is that estate agent speak for Archway or something?

I could list and provide evidence of the anomolies that ATC haven't addressed. These are quantifiable via measurement and also very audible through testing and comparing ATC's implemention to my own.

Anything can be improved. It's just as likely that any particular individual would prefer ATC's implementation to yours. Speakers are all about personal taste, none of them are anywhere close to perfect.

I've heard ATCs sounding distinctly average, and I've also heard them sounding very good (Bub's count in the latter btw). Can't say I've ever heard a pair of PMCs that I wouldn't want to set fire to rather than listen to. But that's just me.

-- Ian

 

[bottleneck]

Im actually pleased not to be surrounded by drug addicts and drunkards.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Maybe those traits simply explain the need to live near cheap prostitutes?

 

[I-S]

James, Mike, I'm sure you really ought to know by now that such posts aren't acceptable.

This thread doesn't appear to be doing anything constructive anymore.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

This thread should have been locked ages ago, when it started to resort to personal slanging.

Yet again we see poor moderation at ZeroGain. I've only come back many months after the Mana debarcle, and its many of the same names still slinging mud about.

I thought I'd give ZG another chance but this time I'm off for good.

So long, if anyone wants my input, you'd better post on PFM where I'll still be.

I'd appreciate it if my account could be deleted.

Mr Perceptive

 

[The Devil]

Mana debarcle [sic]

What Mana debacle was that? I agree that Mana turned itself into a debacle, but that was nothing to do with ZG's moderation, which is first-rate. Are you part of the Mana "massive"*, Mr P?

[Apologies to any easily-offended, po-faced people, God knows I have endured much worse treatment without complaint.]

*ironic use of "massive"

 

[Mr Perceptive]

James

I can't leave that unanswered. The Mana debate (or lack of it) was when Heuer had paid and not received any equipment and a load of people came out of the woodwork slagged Mana off, the product, the man and the the company, posted factually wrong statements about the way that a company can trade, and another group of people defended the situation.

It was very badly moderated with a lot of personal agenda's flying about.

I have never owned any Mana (nor do I wish too) as I think the whole support issue is over-rated, nor have I contributed to the Mana forum.

I'm not offended by anybody's remarks, I have thick skin like many forum debaters, but the way that a simple topic about an (ex) member who has turned into an audio professional can generate so many personal attacks is just not worth hosting in cyber-space, IMHO many of you need to get out more and have a real life away from the keyboard (which is exactly what I'm going to do by reading and contributing to one less forum!)

Mr Perceptive

 

[I-S]

Mr Perceptive - I'm sure you'd moderate a forum perfectly such that everyone was happy all of the time. For every time someone says "that should have been closed ages ago" there will be another that someone says "the moderation was heavy-handed". It might actually amaze you to know that the moderators do not spend all day, every day sitting at computers reading every single post on zerogain. We have jobs and lives too. If you have constructive suggestions please make them, but retrospectively saying "that was rubbish" isn't helpful.

 

[anon_bb]

Bub you have inadvertently labelled yourself not me. Thats the point isnt it - you never compare. Which is why you made such an ass of yourself over the lp12. I have a huge flat and it isnt in archway - its quite bizarre to me that you should think you are irratating me with this rather silly line of attack. None of this has anything to do with the thread.

SM - you keep attacking my moral probity for no good reason. Given some of your previous posts concerning the use of paid thugs to redress business problems I hardly think you are in a position to preach. I live an ascetic lifestyle spent in simple contemplation - free of drugs alcohol even caffeine and I have foresworn all loose women. Again nothing to do with this thread.

This thread was about thorsten leaving but yet again the same small group of nay sayers has to turn it into a slanging match (and brought up a load of old irrelevent grudges on over familiar topics which is really rather revealing) because of personal emnity they feel just because he ruffled a few egos - with posts on a hifi forum of all things. Some people should really know better.

 

[sideshowbob]

I have foresworn all loose women

Surely it's the other way around?

-- Ian

 

[anon_bb]

I have made a virtue out of necessity