Anyone heard the GBP7000 NAIM CD Player?

[PeteH]

Originally posted by timpy
No, wrong. At the start, the Nad owner had never heard of Micromega, and was still less impressed that it was French. As far as he knew it was treated with the utmost suspicion, he had no idea what he was supposed to be hearing, and he expected his NAD to walk it. Only when he took it home did he come to think it was so much better than his NAD.

If he'd been relying on the DBL test he'd never have known as the difference didn't show up noticeably. Like I said, the DBL was useless in that instance.

Erm... but you said "the bloke with the Micromega was gutted btw". Don't you think the NAD guy might somehow have got the idea from the rest of you that the Micromega should have been much better? Then leave the idea to grow in private for a couple of days, and hey presto, he's ready to elope with the Micromega

And even if he didn't get the impression from you folks that the Micromega had a much posher pedigree - which I find very unlikely from your description - he could just as easily have formed that impression himself without listening at all. If he'd never heard of Micromega, perhaps his knowledge of hifi stuff isn't all that comprehensive - he could then easily assume (subconsciously if not consciously) that anything he hadn't heard of was an esoteric high-end monster. It's not hard to imagine him then convincing himself that, yes, the Micromega was much better than his NAD after all.

 

[greg]

Originally posted by sideshowbob
Tut tut, Wittgenstein would be turning in his grave (sorry, couldn't resist, but his private language argument is directed against precisely this sort of relativistic notion)

-- Ian

I didnt mention relativism, I mentioned independence. But most pertinant is that I am not using Wittgenstein to prove my point - on the contrary I am pointing out that a logically constructed language cannot be used to describe all things.

Prove cables have electrical differences?
I proved the DCT s/cables delivered more emotion in the music to myself sufficiently to spend some money. no more no less.

Can you prove music contains emotion? The emotion is not carried with the music in the air, the emotion doesnt exist on the disc, or at an electrical level. It exists in the mind/heart/endocrinal response of the listener. Is there any point trying to measure the electrical signal/pattern which will trigger this? For the purposes of imroving MY listening experience my ears are adequate.

 

[timpy]

Originally posted by PeteH
Erm... but you said "the bloke with the Micromega was gutted btw". Don't you think the NAD guy might somehow have got the idea from the rest of you that the Micromega should have been much better? Then leave the idea to grow in private for a couple of days, and hey presto, he's ready to elope with the Micromega

I see what you're driving at, but the NAD was a 304, four/five star amp at the time and the owner thought it was the mutts danglies, it must be, "What Hi-Fi?" had said so. The Micromega was a Minim, and it's owner had bought it cheap from the local dealer beacuse they all but disappered. The Micromega owner didn't know what he had really, and it wasn't that well known over here anyway, even then. Hhands up all those who've seen a Minim, let alone listened to one!. If anything I'd say the bias was the other way!!

Originally posted by PeteH
And even if he didn't get the impression from you folks that the Micromega had a much posher pedigree - which I find very unlikely from your description - he could just as easily have formed that impression himself without listening at all. If he'd never heard of Micromega, perhaps his knowledge of hifi stuff isn't all that comprehensive - he could then easily assume (subconsciously if not consciously) that anything he hadn't heard of was an esoteric high-end monster. It's not hard to imagine him then convincing himself that, yes, the Micromega was much better than his NAD after all.

Again I know what you're saying, the third amp was mine, an Audiolab 8000A mk2, the first one I owned, and it must be testamony to the utter cr@pness of the test system that they were all but indistinguishable from each other, or of course, they really are all the same . Either way, the Micromega owner and I expected the Audiolab to walk it, and the the Nad owner expected the NAD to win because 1) it was newer and 2) he was just like that!! The Micromega may as well have had Alba written on it for all the Kudos it carried.

Cheers

 

[sideshowbob]

Are you advicating ones ear is a flawed device for the purpose of assessing improvements to ones audio system?

Far from it, but our ears are not the only sense involved. I repeat, I'm not arguing for DBT in order to choose equipment. But the DBT-ers claim that the only way one can categorically say one is solely using one's ears to judge whether a difference exists, and nothing else, is to undergo an unsighted test. That seems to me to be unarguably true. I don't see how anyone can reasonably object to it.

-- Ian

 

[greg]

Come on slideshow lets take this sucker to 400 responses. Who's with me????? :JOEL:

 

[sideshowbob]

A

 

[sideshowbob]

very

 

[sideshowbob]

good

 

[sideshowbob]

idea

-- Ian

 

[wolfgang]

You tell them.

Long may the ideal of the Art of Critical Listening prosper.

Aim for 1000. Be brave.

 

[Paul Ranson]

Can you prove music contains emotion?

Surely by definition it doesn't?

Is there any point trying to measure the electrical signal/pattern which will trigger this?

You're assuming it's triggered by an 'electrical signal/pattern'. Nobody has been able to show this, so on the face of it it would seem to be a not very good assumption.

For the purposes of imroving MY listening experience my ears are adequate.

This is not in dispute; you are persistently arguing straw men. A good way to get the number of responses up...

Paul

 

[adam]

Originally posted by timpy
I see what you're driving at, but the NAD was a 304, four/five star amp at the time and the owner thought it was the mutts danglies, it must be, "What Hi-Fi?" had said so. The Micromega was a Minim, and it's owner had bought it cheap from the local dealer beacuse they all but disappered. The Micromega owner didn't know what he had really, and it wasn't that well known over here anyway, even then. Hhands up all those who've seen a Minim, let alone listened to one!. If anything I'd say the bias was the other way!!

The Two amps are actually in the same price bracket,The minium range was Micromega entry level amp,very small slim and unimposing,which was £300 when released in the UK market,along with a tuner and Cd player,it is in no way ahigh end amp,the amp is still in production albiet in a different form.

 

[bottleneck]

Im beginning to understand this now.
Sorry about my previous lack of understanding.
This is how I believe it works...

1) Try piece of hifi. Discover that the difference, if there is one, between the new piece of kit and the old one is either hard to hear, or maybe not there at all.

2) Disregard the blatantly obvious solution of - ''Dont buy it then''

3) Instead, blindfold yourself, and get a chum to swap it backwards and forwards at least 16 times to see if this negligable difference is easier to hear when you cant see what you're doing.


Dont think Ive missed anything out?

Look! and I didnt even say it was sad.

 

[notaclue]

The point is simply that sighted testing allows listener bias and expectation to influence what is 'heard' whilst blind testing greatly reduces (eliminates?) this and is, therefore, a more reliable method of discerning the sonic differences bewteen audio equipment.

This thread will end when everyone acknowledges that this is, indeed, the case and when a full written apology is obtained from all those who ever doubted it in the first place. Naturally.

 

[wadia-miester]

mean while on Planet earth.....................

 

[timpy]

Originally posted by adam
The Two amps are actually in the same price bracket,The minium range was Micromega entry level amp,very small slim and unimposing,which was £300 when released in the UK market,along with a tuner and Cd player,it is in no way ahigh end amp,the amp is still in production albiet in a different form.

Indeed, I've since then bought a Minim for £90 on epay, and given it to a relative. It was warmer than I remembered and run out of puff driving the Keilidh's that I had at the time. T'was good though and relative bargain. The only thing that worried m about them (and they both do/did this) was the way the transformer slopped around in it's mounting in the case, and the fact that they won't come apart without spoiling the metal top plate. If you shake them to the right they hum (mechanically), and if you shake them left again they're Ok. Or it is the other way round....can't remember, still, probably won't ever affect anyone else.

Cracking amp though, bit warm, but excellent VFM. And yes, I thought it was better than the 304, although the Audiolab had more of the pace and sparkle I liked. The Minim has a rotary encoder volume control, and an Arcam remote will work the volume, or more irritatingly the Marantz cdp output level operates it as well.

What is it made as now Adam? Not familiar with the current Micromega range, or is it called something else? The guy who had the one in the test, bought it as part of a system, and got his for 120 quid although it was ex-dem. We think the dealer just wanted shot of it at the time.

Cheers

 

[dat19]

Originally posted by michaelab
Or, to refer to more recent popular culture:

If I'm perceiving a difference is that just what the Matrix is telling me? Is DBT really an idea dreamt up by the leaders of Zion to get people to question their reality?

Is dat19 Neo? :yikes:

No, I am Morpheus

Morpheus opens his hands. In the right
is a red pill. In the left, a blue
pill.

MORPHEUS
This is your last chance.
After this, there is no
going back. You take the
blue pill and the story
ends. You wake in your
bed and you believe
whatever you want to
believe.

The pills in his open hands are
reflected in the glasses.

MORPHEUS
You take the red pill and
you stay in Wonderland and
I show you how deep the
rabbit hole goes.

 

[cookiemonster]

.......DBT solves yet another mystery

 

[wadia-miester]

Cookie do you really have to keep giving this stuff away , you know 'Lukey boy' has been living in a cunningly disgused canoe, just behind the south west bus stop on the outskirts of chipping ongar, which as you know full well, its transdimensional gate way to the 5th plane, where he's been leading a double life as thrupney bit polisher (Fully decorated with stars and clusters) for Audio rescue's sister organisation, he just returns to 'appear' for those older jurno's still chasing him, amuses him & gives them false hope, such sweet ironry. Wm

 

[adam]

Originally posted by timpy
[B


What is it made as now Adam? Not familiar with the current Micromega range, or is it called something else? The guy who had the one in the test, bought it as part of a system, and got his for 120 quid although it was ex-dem. We think the dealer just wanted shot of it at the time.

[/B]

The latest version of the minuim range,which I think looks very nice,there are two versions of the amp,one being more powerful than the other,one is 500âââ'¬Å¡Â¬ and the other is 900âââ'¬Å¡Â¬